MOD POST: Dear Liberal Members

[sopdetly.livejournal.com]

When I spotted the 100+ comments on the post about the "Ground Zero Mosque", I figured I should peek in there. Perhaps unsurprisingly, I saw that it has grown to such a size because of a few non-right-wing characters who think that this is debate.

THIS COMM IS NOT debate. NOR IS IT conservatism. OR ANY OTHER REGULAR POLITICAL COMM.

This comm was created as a place where right-wing fanfolks could talk politics and not be forced to listen to left-wing yammering, as we have have to do practically everywhere else in fandom. It is not meant to encourage debate between the sides. I hesitate to call it a "safe space", but people don't join this comm to get the kind of arguments that you are providing in that post (and perhaps others of which I am unaware).

I'm not calling you trolls, and I am not (at this time) banning anyone. We do have open membership, and I know that there are less-incendiary liberals watching who either just want to laugh quietly to themselves or honestly want to understand our POVs.

But I want it clear that if you have come to "correct" our posters, "enlighten" us to facts, or otherwise engage us in debate, you are not welcome. (This goes doubly for those who I see are members of a comm whose purpose seems to be to bitch about right-wingers. Do your bitching there, don't bring it here.)

There are plenty of other places where your debate is welcome, and the mods here at TRF respectfully ask that you keep it there and out of this comm. The vast majority of us are right-wing here and we have enough difference in opinion on issues to keep things lively enough without having to defend our positions to the left-wing.

Thank you.

ETA: I know at some point in the history of this comm, there was verbiage similar to this in spirit in the comm's userinfo. At some point it was removed, but this comm was never not intended to be this kind of place. I have added some of this back to the post to make that more clear. If you came here genuinely under the impression that good-natured debate was welcome, I hope you will respect this clarification.

ETA 2: And if you're not even a member and you come in a week later to bitch about the purpose of this comm, you're banned. Simple as that.

Comments

[pat-t.livejournal.com]

So glad I passed on that post.

Yep.

[carbonelle.livejournal.com]

Any Muslim group referencing "Cordoba" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caliphate_of_C%C3%B3rdoba) had some serious 'splainig to do about what they mean by "tipping points in Muslim/Western relationships...

[trevelyanl85a2.livejournal.com]

Thank you ma'am :)

Now, who wants cookies ? :D

*offers cookies and milk to everyone* I think they're delicious...right?

[arkadelos.livejournal.com]

What type of cookies?!

[pastygothchick.livejournal.com]

*Goes Cookie Monster* Cis for cookie.

[pattyoplenty.livejournal.com]

Give it a big amen!!!

[cutelildrow.livejournal.com]

This comm was created as a place where right-wing fanfolks could talk politics and not be forced to listen to left-wing yammering, as we have have to do practically everywhere else in fandom. It is not meant to encourage debate between the sides. I hesitate to call it a "safe space", but people don't join this comm to get the kind of arguments that you are providing in that post (and perhaps others of which I am unaware).

*reads that description*
*happily joins comm*

^__^

[arkadelos.livejournal.com]

Thanks for joining! This place seems to have gotten quiet over the past few months, and I miss some of the old members who left.

[rightsaidred.livejournal.com]

Thank you. I know exactly which community you are referring to, to which some of these people belong, and I'm convinced some of them came over here to stir up shit to post about over there.

[modernelegance.livejournal.com]

Thank you so much for posting this!

[trevelyanl85a2.livejournal.com]

Happy birthday btw!

*gives you ice cream cake* :D

[lilliew.livejournal.com]

Thank you. I was rather surprised to see so many liberals in a post to this community.

(frozen)

[izuko.livejournal.com]

Probably fewer liberals than you think, just more liberal accounts.

[jonathankorman.livejournal.com]

You called me out over in the “Ground Zero Mosque” post, and I want to ask a clarifying point. I do not want to troll, and as I said there I will gladly apologize and step back if I've crossed the line.

I'm a mostly lurking liberal, who comments occasionally. There (http://community.livejournal.com/therightfangirl/1262081.html?thread=13749505#t13749505) and in other (http://community.livejournal.com/therightfangirl/1262081.html?thread=13749505#t13749505) previous (http://community.livejournal.com/therightfangirl/1116352.html?thread=11880128#t11880128) discussions (http://community.livejournal.com/therightfangirl/1258180.html?thread=13695940#t13695940) in the comm I have commented only in response to posts and comments about liberals' thinking, describing what liberals think without arguing that we are, in fact, correct. In the ensuing exchanges I've tried to also respond to comments and questions in reply in that same spirit. I have received some positive feedback (http://community.livejournal.com/therightfangirl/1119982.html?thread=11905262#t11905262) for speaking with this voice. But if my “reporting not debating” distinction is hairsplitting too fine for the standards of the comm, I defer to the judgment of the mods—it's your forum.

I've also made occasional other (http://community.livejournal.com/therightfangirl/1116352.html?thread=11865024#t11865024) comments (http://community.livejournal.com/therightfangirl/1205114.html?thread=13124218#t13124218) which I tried to keep in the spirit of the forum, which I hope are welcome. When I do so, I flag myself as a liberal if I think it's relevant that I not implicitly misidentify myself. Again, I hope that this is welcome; if not, I apologize and will stop.

[modernelegance.livejournal.com]

I hope you don't mind me jumping in...Personally, I have found you respectful and open to discussion -- not eager to debate and demean anyone. Sure, I may not agree with you at times, but that doesn't mean that you're a troll or that your opinion is invalid or unwelcomed. (It also helps that you've been active for quite a few months and you have been respectful throughout and not stirring up conflict.)

[darth-firefly.livejournal.com]

Thank you for posting this. +brings out the doughnuts+

[trevelyanl85a2.livejournal.com]

Donuts and cookies, an excellent combo!

[mosinging1986.livejournal.com]

Sorry I missed this. (I was reading posts in reverse order and just got to it.) I won't talk to those people again.

[lazypadawan.livejournal.com]

I've figured there are moles hanging about and really, I don't care for that at all. It's cowardly, immature, and lame. It's designed to not only discourage people from speaking out here, it's designed to allow people to smear you elsewhere out of context, where you can't even defend yourself.

Moreover, disagreement is one thing but some of the "disagreement" I've seen here recently has been personal and rather nasty. If you can't contribute anything more than snark, drive-by posts, and name-calling, go find something else to do. I don't waste my time on jerks.

[modernelegance.livejournal.com]

I've seen here recently has been personal and rather nasty. If you can't contribute anything more than snark, drive-by posts, and name-calling, go find something else to do. I don't waste my time on jerks.
THIS!

[jenny-wildcat.livejournal.com]

*APPLAUSE*

Now, who wants some fresh-squeezed lemonade? I see others have beaten me to the cookies and donuts - but summertime calls for something cool to drink ^_^

[mprice.livejournal.com]

I've got beer and pizza for those of legal drinking age.

[longlostblue.livejournal.com]

Thanks for this.

[lizbeth-mairead.livejournal.com]

I'm all for disagreements ("The sound of freedom," Lady Bird called it), but yeah, when it turns into sardonic comments made at everyone's point of view...it's not only obnoxious, but it's uncalled for.

Thank you for stepping in and giving your opinion and voice.

I love this community...

[langostino.livejournal.com]

I'll stand up for myself a bit here.

First, several commenters above have referenced "demeaning" comments. At least for my own comments on that post, I didn't demean anyone. Stating an inconvenient fact, or simply stating a disagreement on a matter of principle, does not in itself demean anyone.

Then there's the matter of the purpose of this community not being debate. If one has the facts (e.g. that the last tenant of the building was Burlington Coat Factory, or that the site is not in fact *at* Ground Zero) that would seem to help the discussion, I don't see that that's an insult or a "drive-by" posting. Sometimes the discussion could, in fact, use a little enlightenment, and providing it doesn't make one an asshole. This is an ordinary part of any human discourse, whether it's a debate or not.

This comm may not exist so that its members have to defend their conclusions or opinions; that's fine. But it strikes me as a horse of a different colour to say that people ought not to check each others' facts here.

[sopdetly.livejournal.com]

Except when the facts are checked by those aligned to the opposite side of the debate, people are not going to accept them so easily. That is human nature, especially in a place where the membership is expected to be more homogenous than in others.

And let me point out that we don't need liberals to come in and check our homework for us. There are plenty of smart people here who do not come across as antagonistic who can say, "You know, I mostly agree with what you're saying, but this little bit isn't true, and it might change your perspective."

Perhaps that is what people find demeaning: that you come here to tell us how wrong we are.

[retrostarfish.livejournal.com]

I, too, think they were just trying to stir things up so that they would have fodder to bring back to their own community. I think they're best ignored from here on out. "Do not feed the troll," and all that.

[la0wai.livejournal.com]

congratulations. your community will soon be a wasteland populated almost entirely by cowardly intellectual midgets just like conservatism now is.

(frozen)

[mugglechump.livejournal.com]

You're making the presumption that this community is the be all and end all of our political information and debate. It's not. This just isn't a community designed to be a place for left vs. right debate, and that's okay. Not every forum needs to suit that purpose.

[foxfire74.livejournal.com]

*points above*

D'awww, look, it's a troll! They're so cute before they learn to capitalize.

[sreya.livejournal.com]

Bwahahahaha! Thank you.

[bluetooth16.livejournal.com]

Thanks for this mod post! I'm a moderate to liberal Republican depending on the issue in question. If I wanted to fight Democrats, I belong to several communities that already have that purpose. I expect this to be a place where only internal disagreement is discussed. I didn't even bother commenting on the Ground Zero Mosque because of the amount of ridic comments on the post.

[agentbristow86.livejournal.com]

Thank you for this post. :D

[writerspleasure.livejournal.com]

if the RAC crowd posts here (qua RACers), they should open their community to us to post under similar strictures.

[sabbrielle.livejournal.com]

Who made that excellent icon?

[ellie-kay.livejournal.com]

"congratulations. your community will soon be a wasteland populated almost entirely by cowardly intellectual midgets just like conservatism now is."

"but that doesn't change the fact that this decision will be the death of the community."

"conservatism is more than a year older than this community, but the place is practically dead because people who disagree with a certain group of extremists there, some of whom are conservatives themselves, are routinely banned. regulars from that community have started to migrate to talk_politics in search of actual debate as a result. in other words, if you turn this place into an echo chamber, interest in it will likely diminish."


I think I see the problem here. If they all get banned from this community (as they have been from conservatism and other journals), they will be unable to stir shit up under the guise of "debate" and thus unable to have "idiot conservatives" to bring back to their bashing community and mock.

So, you see, it's not really about US, it's about them. They have no concern over whether this community dies or not and how it affects us--their concern is how it will affect THEM and their community once they no longer have anyone to shit-talk! When they are absent from a community, members have light-hearted discourse and fangirling sessions. That is boring to them. They cannot accept somewhere where everyone gets along based on political beliefs. They have to make it negative and/or antagonistic. And by doing so, they have fodder to bring back to their shit-talking community.

Without us, their purpose and THEIR community die.

I know this post is old, so if you'd like to delete/freeze this comment feel free.

[herrw.livejournal.com]

Ellie, if I may comment on this:

The purpose is not to engender honest debate. Once, among my party (yes, I'm a Democrat) this was the case. We were willing to debate anything with anyone, and more than willing to throw facts and figures around with an eye to the future and there evitable consequences. The Democrat party is, sadly, no longer willing to engage in intelligent debate.

When I attend Democrat gatherings these days (although I admit I tend to avoid them like the plague, now) all discussion _must_ be in the vein of progressivism, socialism, and the best ways to stealth-implement such things. Otherwise, conversation is allowed to deviate to "I hate Bush" and "Aren't conservatives stupid?" but that's about it.

I started pushing the Laissez-Faire mindset, and quickly got pushed aside as leadership noticed people nodding their heads and agreeing with the loose manifesto. So I don't bother with them any more.

With such restriction on intelligent discourse, the only avenues left are a) bitching about conservatives in general or b) baiting/infiltrating/"crashing" conservative groups. Or, like me, many liberals are celebrating the similarities between our ideologies rather than arguing the differences.