So, I might get ripped to shreds here, but hear me out. Just a question.

[moviequeen985.livejournal.com]

I don't know if it's because I'm in college, and have had my job since before the economy started to go down hill or what, but in my life, personally, I have no reason to complain about the economy. I'm still able to pay my bills, I have a job, and frankly, aside from businesses in town going under, I haven't noticed anything else about how bad the economy is. Has anyone else gone through tremendous financial difficulty because of the economy (and are now seriously dreading the stimulus?)

Comments

[trustme1013.livejournal.com]

I'm guessing you've not tried to take out a loan, buy a house or even sell a house?

My twin brother has the VA loan available to him, but he's spent three months trying to get this house that's being foreclosed on, and it's tough for him. (Why, i don't know)

And, my elder brother, who moved from NC to Missouri (to be closer to home, je suppose) hasn't been able to find employment these five months.

Personally -- I'm in college admissions, and our numbers are DOWN. Way down. I work for a private college, and on the other side of the fence, the community college in our town has record numbers, but the state has had to release like 1/3 of its staff in cutbacks.

I definitely see ramifications of this -- and my trouble in paying my bills stems from my broken foot keeping me from my p/t job/extra cash -- not the economy -- but if our numbers don't improve, my college might find my position superfluous if my recruitment numbers don't improve ...

[travels-in-time.livejournal.com]

My sister-in-law lost her job and my brother lost his, both due to cutbacks in their companies. My husband lost his (more due to politics) and we're about to put our house on the market. It remains to be seen how well that'll go.

ETA: aside from businesses in town going under, I haven't noticed anything else about how bad the economy is.

I don't understand your phrasing here. Isn't businesses going under pretty much the definition of "bad economy"? Businesses close, that puts the people who work for them out of work, those people can't pay their bills, etc etc.

[mosinging1986.livejournal.com]

I've been out of work but that happened before this economic downturn happened. (And if I'd had ANY clue I'd still be looking after so long, I would've stayed where I was even though it was making me physically ill.)

Since I'm stuck at home, I don't have a lot of contact with a wide range of people like I would at a job, so I don't get to hear other people's stories.

But I will say this. I went to the store yesterday (Marshall's) to buy some bed sheets. I could not believe the crowd and line of people. It was the middle of the day, on a weekday! It's not like it was a grocery store. It's clothing and house stuff. You can't avoid buying food. But you sure can live without a new pair of pants. Or even bed sheets.

I don't know anything about economics. And I do know MANY people who are out of work, both online people and RL people. But something tells me this has been blown out of proportion.

So yeah, I ain't buying this 'WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE!' attitude.

[sameinanylingo.livejournal.com]

But I will say this. I went to the store yesterday (Marshall's) to buy some bed sheets. I could not believe the crowd and line of people. It was the middle of the day, on a weekday! It's not like it was a grocery store. It's clothing and house stuff. You can't avoid buying food. But you sure can live without a new pair of pants. Or even bed sheets.

This is what I'm talking about! It's the same way here. And I linked to a news story the other day about January retail numbers being higher than expected.

Again, I maintain, if Washington (and the media) would stop feeding us the constant diet of doom and gloom the free market would take care of itself.

Oh yeah, there was also a story about housing sales making an unexpected rebound.

But I also maintain that the stimulus bill isn't really about helping the economy at all. It's about all of the hidden crap in it meant to further along the liberal agenda. That's why there's such urgency to get it passed before anyone has a chance to find out what's really in there. And to do that they have to convince us that the world will end if it isn't passed.

[pastygothchick.livejournal.com]

But I also maintain that the stimulus bill isn't really about helping the economy at all. It's about all of the hidden crap in it meant to further along the liberal agenda.

Lol Careful you're starting to sound like it's a vast left-wing conspiracy to become totalitarian dictators. ;) Totally agree with you.

I get crap from liberals about being paranoid about the stimulus bill but the constant barrage of "the economy is tanking Santa Obama will save you!" scares me.

[coldblossom.livejournal.com]

But I will say this. I went to the store yesterday (Marshall's) to buy some bed sheets. I could not believe the crowd and line of people. It was the middle of the day, on a weekday! It's not like it was a grocery store. It's clothing and house stuff. You can't avoid buying food. But you sure can live without a new pair of pants. Or even bed sheets.

>>This is what I'm talking about! It's the same way here. And I linked to a news story the other day about January retail numbers being higher than expected.

Hm. The way that I interpret that is people are out of work (larger crowds during the day) but who haven't quite been hit with the gravity of their situation. Some people are addicted to spending and addicted to things they don't need. They're also addicted to credit--they buy today and pay next month (if ever) and they think being unemployed is temporary. My question would be why they're not looking for a job instead of wasting time shopping?

As far as retail numbers being "higher than expected," I think that figure was 1%. So yes, higher in a literal sense, but nothing to crow about by far, especially when expectations were so low to begin with.

I wish the free market could take care of itself, but the free market ceased to exist the moment private entities accepted money from TARP I. Its now the government-controlled market, and I doubt it will ever recover. And its not just the U.S. media spinning gloom and doom where there is none: China is hella P.O.'d at us because they hold so much of our debt but can't do anything because we're still the "best" risk (instead of being the best of the best, we're the best of what's left), and the S&P is set to reassess the USA's AAA credit rating (link (http://www.reuters.com/article/idUKN1752966920080917)) and was considering doing so as far back as TARP I; we now have the "stimulus" spending and then TARP II coming down the pipe, which will only increase our debt and make things worse. That's not media hype.

[sameinanylingo.livejournal.com]

The thing is, it's been like this for months. And all of these people can't be people out of work with nothing better to do or addicted to spending. For us this was normal friday night crowds in places where it seems to be "business as usual". And as for the crowds during the day, you can;t just assume that all of those people are out of work and/or spending money they don't have or are even people addicted to shopping. There are a number of scenarios ... stay at home moms, people on their lunch break, etc.


As far as retail numbers being "higher than expected," I think that figure was 1%. So yes, higher in a literal sense, but nothing to crow about by far, especially when expectations were so low to begin with.

If they can use 1% as a reason to panic and make everyone else panic when it's the other way around, then 1% up, especially when they were expecting numbers to go down even than they had, to me, is something to feel some optimism about and believe that if they would just leave things alone things would start to stabilize on their own. It's not just retail sales, it's the news the housing market showed signs of rebound and Ford also announced that the auto industry was starting to stabilize.

The entire "free market" isn't gone. And I believe if they would just let it work it will work

However, this is precisely why the bail out never should have happened to begin with. I find it interesting, though, how so many of us conservatives are dead set against the stimulus plan, yet so many of us will argue about reasons why the free market is no longer free and that it can't fix itself. We can't have it both ways. We either believe in the free market or we don't.

Bottom line, I do not buy into all the gloom and doom. I'm not saying things are wonderful or that they'll recover over night. I'm just saying that I believe if the government would just step back and no get involved (and yes, they can do that even now) that thing will improve. Not over night, but they will improve because it's happened before.

[coldblossom.livejournal.com]

I'm of the "glass is half-empty" perception right now because I do not see how the goverment will "step back" if it does not have the will to do so. It definitely does not; in fact, I anticipate that when GM tries to announce bankruptcy soon that the government will step in and say "you're not allowed to go bankrupt! Prepare for a hostile take-over of your assets."

If I had any inkling that the government was going to get out of the way then I would share your view as I do believe in the free-market and I do believe that recessions are a necessary part of growth (they allow prices to fall/reset/stabilize and they encourage innovativation and in the end, the consumer wins). But as I said, the free-market doesn't exist right now and every indication is that it is going to become more government controlled before it becomes more "free." (if it ever does).

[sameinanylingo.livejournal.com]

Oh, I don't think the government is going to get out of the way either, or is willing to. I'm just saying that if people would stop listening to them and stop listening to the gloom and doom media for just a minute and observe what's actually going on in the world around them ... in their immediate environment, then they might see that somethings just aren't adding up. And that's what makes it so frustrating. When you can see signs (as little as they may be) that things can and would improve on their own if they were just allowed to it make you want to scream. At least it does me.

And it's those little things that convince me more and more each day that the there are ulterior motives to the stimulus passing and they don't involve helping the economy.

[moviequeen985.livejournal.com]

See, the crowds are what made me write this because as a student, I feel like I am so sheltered, and it has been crazy busy (especially at midnight at Walmart. WTF?) at businesses and restaurants. You would think the government (and the people's savior) would be encouraging people to be more frugal, but it seems to be just the opposite.

[lazypadawan.livejournal.com]

My brother lost his job last fall as did one of his friends (who has since found another job) and his brother-in-law. So far, I'm okay in my job but it is in law enforcement and I do worry about what will happen because of the state financial meltdown and the poop rolling downhill as a result. *Keeps fingers crossed.*

Not everybody is directly affected by these things, though. Even I found a job during the recession of 1991-92.

[sameinanylingo.livejournal.com]

My husband lost his contract position right after the stock market tanked. Now I think this would have happened anyway and was a result of some changes in the company that happened well before this because the company he was contracting for is a growing company and has remained prosperous through out all of this and is more a case of them not knowing what the hell they want.

That being said he was having a hell of a time finding a job over the past 5 months.

What frustrates me is that I think the constant doom we hear from the media (and now Obama and Washington) is making companies who do have money to hire people and keep people on afraid to spend money.

Basically, I think the media and Democrats are making it worse than it has to be. I think if they'd just leave it alone the free market would stabilize itself (it's already showing signs of doing so). It won't happen over night, but it will happen as it's happened before.

That being said, stores and restaurants are still packed in my city. And it's not just people browsing. The only restaurants that have gone under are a few higher end places that most people couldn't afford on a regular basis anyway. I think these are places that were hanging by a thread and would have closed eventually, it just happened sooner.

So yeah, we've been affected, but I also see things on a regular basis that baffle me. Last night we were at B&N and it was packed! And people were buying things. The same for Half Price Books. The location we went to has always been very busy and last night was no exception. And again, people were buying things.

:::shrug:::

[foxfire74.livejournal.com]

My experience has been that when things are economically iffy, people buy smaller luxuries a lot - if you can't buy a car, buy a book.

Things have been tight for us, though hopefully they'll improve; I make my living at craft shows, and election years are always, always bad for us, no matter WHO is coming into or leaving office.

[agilebrit.livejournal.com]

Maybe it's because Utah generally gets hit less hard than other states during stuff like this, but I'm not seeing it. We decided to have our Valentine's Day dinner yesterday (because doing it on a Saturday on a holiday weekend just seemed monumentally dumb), and it seemed like everyone else had the same notion. We got there right as the restaurant opened at 4pm, and there was already a 20-minute wait. I was at the comic store on Wednesday, and not a single person after me spent less than $25 (yes, I hang out, because I'm a huge geek and Trev is nice and also a writer).

The Hubby and I will be okay, because even if he loses his job (unlikely; he works for one of the few airlines that actually makes a profit and has high seniority), the house is paid for and we'd be able to get burger-flipping jobs (if nothing else) to pay the bills with. Our 401-k and mutual funds have tanked, but I'm sure they'll recover before we need them.

So, yeah. Also, I'm thinking the whole thing started out manufactured by the media and the Democrats, consumer confidence went into the toilet because of all the scare-mongering, and now here we are. The technical definition of a "recession" is two consecutive quarters of negative growth...and I'm not entirely sure we've even had one, overall. :/

[moviequeen985.livejournal.com]

Kinda wonder if it's the liberals and the media who want to blame all this on Bush and make Obama look "good" (if that's possible).

[modernelegance.livejournal.com]

Well really this did not happen until the Democrats took the majority two years ago. Prior to that things were looking good. So really all they're doing is making themselves look worse and trying to make Bush the scapegoat.

[orominuialwen.livejournal.com]

That's the most widely-known definition, but it's not the one used by the Fed or any of the other government agencies.

According to them, "a recession is a significant decline in economic activity spread across the economy, lasting more than a few months, normally visible in real GDP, real income, employment, industrial production, and wholesale-retail sales."
(From here (http://www.nber.org/cycles.html), scroll down to the bottom of the page.)

I'm not a huge fan of the fuzzy definition, but that's why they're saying that we're in recession. *Takes off nerdy econ major hat*

[agilebrit.livejournal.com]

And the fuzzy definition is what allows them to call this thing a "recession," even though, technically, it's not. Although they're doing their best to scare us into an actual one, apparently. And then Saint Obama and the Dems can come and "save" us...

From their own massive screw-up.

[kittystar.livejournal.com]

I do freelance webdesign and I haven't gotten a new client since the economy tanked. I had a pretty steady stream until just recently. Now, I haven't lost any clients either, but they have been updating less because I charge per update. Thankfully though, it's not my only source of income... I work for a restoration company that restores homes after fires, pipe bursts, etc., so our business is actually growing because it's not tied to the economy. People will always need someone to fix their house after a fire.

[tingilya.livejournal.com]

I'm married with a baby, and it's hard. My husband works and I'm a homemaker. Electricity costs have gone up. Food prices have gone up. Gas is up and down. Thankfully, our mortgage stays the same. My husband's company is no longer allowing overtime, so his paycheck has gone down.

Yes, it's hard out here. Be grateful you're in college.

[ohinternets.livejournal.com]

Well, I work from home doing various things, and I've made quite a lot of money in 2009, to the point where if this continues through the year I will be in a different tax bracket next time I file my taxes. The end of 2008 was pretty rough, though.

[athousandsmiles]

It is a curious thing. Around here (northern NJ) homes aren't selling. The house next door to me has been on the market since November of '07. And there are homes all down the road that haven't sold for months and months. My husband's business has experienced a little bit of a slow down that worries me (and I suspect it's tied to the real estate market here).

But the malls and shops are doing business as usual. My husband took me out to a pricey restaurant last night, and the place was packed by the time we left.

My family in Michigan is suffering far worse. My younger brother just got laid off. My older brother is holding his breath, waiting for the cut any day now. My parents are worried about losing their pensions from GM. I worry about them all, but there's nothing I can do about it.

[kali-kali.livejournal.com]

I moved to England in late November, and the same day I did, Woolworth's (a major UK retailer) went into administration, and all of their shops were closed within a month and a half. Besides them, there have been major retailers going into administration almost every week since I've been here. None have been as huge and prominent as Woolworth's, but still.

Most people I know here who don't have jobs, like me, have been having a really hard time finding them. I've only recently started to get interviews, so things are looking up. I hope, because I'm running out of money fast and I want to finish my Europe trip rather than have to go back to Canada early.

[mprice.livejournal.com]

I didn't know that Woolworths even existed any more. I thought they went out of business ages ago. I used to live in Utica, NY where the very first one opens. To may amazement, after a quick google search, I discovered that what I knew as F.W.Woolworth is now Foot Locker.

[kali-kali.livejournal.com]

Yeah, they were still big in the UK. Not anymore though - I was shocked at how rapidly a national chain like that (they had over 800 stores here) closed down entirely.

[orominuialwen.livejournal.com]

I'm in college too, so I haven't really noticed it much either, but I'm really insulated from it too. My dad has worked for state government for 30 years, so while they're trying to fire him again, it's more because he doesn't agree with the way his department is run than economic reasons. My mom works for a public university and is extremely underemployed, but that's been true for years now, so I don't think it has to do with the economy so much as the part she works for always being cheap!

[arkadelos.livejournal.com]

Given my position in life, I also doubt I'll suffer problems due to the economy any time soon. However, I looked up the Federal Reserve's projected unemployment rate for 2009, and the people there expect 8% unemployment, which is not bad once you get down to it. We are in a recession and not a depression. In fact, this is the most benign recession our country has had in decades if not in our history. I will post a graph on my LJ to show you.

[caromiofic.livejournal.com]

In California, home sales have gone down except for those who can get the foreclosed ones. Our housing prices were so inflated, that this adjustment was needed, though it hurts some. Median price for my zip code is still $379,000, and for a lot of these run down places that were built in the '50s, still more than they're really worth. I'm a couple miles south of Disneyland, so we get property values inflated even if they're for crap.

My boyfriend got laid off twice last year - first time in March because of both politics and tightening belts (they're a landscaping wholesaler, so they've made a ton of cuts since), second time from a mismanaged company going under, but he'd only been there about a month.
He went from Assist. IT Manager, to doing phone tech support now for barely anything. He'd been at the first place 5 years and finally gotten up to $35,000/year with overtime, plus free health care and 2 weeks vacation. If he was still there, he was going to look into buying a mobile home and moving out of his dad's house, finally. He works for EVGA now, and will have to climb the ladder all over again, though he'd rather be back in a real IT job instead of stuck in levels of tech support. His old boss would hire him back in a heartbeat if the company ever flourishes again.

Everyone I know in RL is working, but I have online friends that have had various worries. I know that I'm paying a lot more for basics than I used to. $50 goes like nothing at a grocery/drugstore. I don't have a car, but I know I'd be complaining about CA's gas prices.......but I still miss the days it was a $1.15, anyway, so.. ;)

[mprice.livejournal.com]

I live in the Buffalo, NY area, which has been having economic problems for many years now because of the closure of the steel mills and then the car assembly plants. People have been moving out of the area to find jobs almost as soon as they get out of college. That is what my son planned on doing this year but that has been put on hold.

I work two jobs, one in an office and one at Penneys. Last August, my son also started working at Penneys. Then after the economy tanked, hours started being cut, even at Christmas time, which is usually when you get a lot of hours. After Christmas, and before the start of 2009, they cut all their "seasonal" help. This was when we learned that my son was seasonal. No one had mentioned this before. He's been looking for work since.

Then at the start of the month, Citi Bank increased the amount of the interest rate on my credit card from 12% to 18.99%. When I called to ask about it, I was told it was because of the economy. I pointed out that I've had the card for 21 years, never failed to make a payment, and had been given the lower interest because of this. Same answer. So, because someone else screwed up the banking industry, which has been bailed out with MY tax dollars, I have to pay a higher rate. No thanks. I cancelled the card.

I agree with everyone panicking. I pointed out that this is exactly what happened last summer when gas prices skyrocketed. ZOMG! Gas will be $8.00 a gallon by December!! But what really happened? People adjusted, stopped driving so much, and stopped buying gas as often. After a couple months, the market adjusted itself and prices came down. No bailout required.

[coldblossom.livejournal.com]

Well, we are still employed, but my company did cut 8% of its national workforce. I'm in the telecomm industry so while the industry will always be there its not a guarantee that my specific job always will be (it could be consolidated). My husband runs the IT department for a large credit union here, so he's been largely insulated as CUs generally don't take the risks that banks do.

However, we bought our first home right before the housing bubble burst and because of the timing, we overpaid by a lot. Now we're incredibly upside-down on our mortgage (we've lost something like 1/3 to 1/2 of our home's value, if not more) and we will be unable to sell it for what we paid for it, period. Its an albatross and we're really not sure what we're going to do with it.

[manichalo.livejournal.com]

It's really interesting to hear everyone's different stories. I'm noticing many people laid off from jobs they never thought would be affected.
In late Sept. I took a leap of faith and landed a tech job that I never thought I'd be qualified for. Now I'm in a higher tax bracket, got more money, drive less, and doing MUCH better. And they offer overtime, they're always looking for new people and have added more than 200 positions since Oct. Guess I got lucky.
But I see hyper-inflation coming, along with many other alarming trends. I'm not spending any more than I ever did, not using credit cards, and keeping my house in order cuz I don't like what I see coming.
Good luck to you guys, and keep watch.