Need....sanity...

[ladyrogue79.livejournal.com]

So thoughts on the whole North Carolina amendment thing? Mainly I came over here to get away from my liberal friends on Facebook who keep praising Obama for saying he supports same-sex marriage. I was going to mention how convenient it is that he did that during an election year.... but I know what the response will be. I really don't understand liberals though. Yeah, it sucks that NC voted against same-sex marriage, but... they VOTED. I thought that was how this whole system worked.

Comments

[blondebaroness.livejournal.com]

It's only the democratic process when it goes the way liberals want it to. If it doesn't, it's called the oppression of the masses.

North Carolinians are tired of calling every living arrangement the same as a marriage. I'm in NY. Homosexuals can get married. If you're hetero and living together, for decades even, it's still just sharing the rent. You don't have any automatic rights nor should you. Suck it up. Write a will. This isn't a common-law state.

[jessm78.livejournal.com]

As a fellow NYer just want to say "ditto" to your entire comment.

[foxfire74.livejournal.com]

I am fairly neutral on the whole question, but the rivers of liberal tears are triggering my schadenfreude quite a bit. >:) I particularly liked the anguished blogger going "This is the opposite of democracy!!" when it's precisely what democracy is.

[darth-firefly.livejournal.com]

I can't even check my Twitter without reading people screaming about this.

The people of NC have spoken. That's how these things work. It's the same way we get assholes in political offices.

My thoughts on marriage is this: as long as both parties are consenting adults and they're not related, go ahead, have fun.. make sure you really want to do this. And try and take that 'as long as you both shall live' part seriously. That's important.

[theidolhands.livejournal.com]

icon love

[rivetspoon.livejournal.com]

The (intelligent) argument being made is that it shouldn't be something we vote on at all. It's the same as interracial marriage being on the ballot, and we accept that as a nation without question now.

[mosinging1986.livejournal.com]

Except for the fact that race has no bearing on marriage, while gender most certainly does.


Those pesky facts, they always spoil everything.

[rivetspoon.livejournal.com]

Blahblahblah get your religion out of my mockery of a religious institution and all that jazz. XD

[chibimarchy.livejournal.com]

It makes me want to beat my head against a wall that people can't see that this is an obvious reelection ploy from Obama. Instead they're all cheering and fawning over him, and I want to vomit about it. D:

As far as gay marriage goes, I really don't have strong feelings one way or the other, but you're right- NC voted, and that's how democracy is supposed to work, isn't it?

[kharmii.livejournal.com]

Not just that, but Obama is super desperate. His approval rating is low, so he's trying to get the young vote (even though young people in their twenties have about a 16% employment rate in this crappy economy).

[darth-firefly.livejournal.com]

Obama is so desperate it's almost funny. A coworker mentioned today how cool it would be to listen to Obama read the Hobbit at our library.

My instant thought (after 'you're a dumbass') was: Sure, Obama is going to come read to a bunch of middle-class white children in the redest part of this blue county.

[dark-weezing.livejournal.com]

He could always read to them, "Dreams From My Father." Nothing packs the kid seats like talking about eating dogs and "White Man's Greed."

[pat-t.livejournal.com]

The Obama love has me gagging. I am sad that NC residents felt the need to have a ban put in their state constitution. I feel adults should be able to love whomever they want and have the right to be in a legal relationship if they should chose.

However, the residents of this or any state have the right to disagree and vote. If you don't like it, move to a state that approves your union. Work to change people's minds. Work to change the law in a civil and respectful manner.

People across the pond are moaning and bitching. And I want to say "come on guys. Really?"

[neemarita.livejournal.com]

FB is inundated with talk about North Carolina being full of disgusting, evil people who deserve to be shot. Not kidding. Lots of violent rhetoric.

[darth-firefly.livejournal.com]

Twitter's not much better. My FB is quiet at the moment on this matter... people are gushing about the end of school instead.

[ladyrogue79.livejournal.com]

You know, we should start friending each other on FB just to balance out the liberals and conservatives on our flists.

[dark-weezing.livejournal.com]

http : // twitchy.com/2012/05/08/north-carolina-bans-gay-marriage-liberals-freak-out/

I love how the bastions of tolerance's first reaction to NC's vote is "go kill yourself, North Carolina." No, really.

Meanwhile, Obama really needs NC, so this vote against his back-and-forth with his base and the swing voters won't help him..., not to mention his "evolution completion," today.

I'm not for it, but, hey, as long as it's up for a vote, I'll accept the result, whatever it is.

But, hey, being a liberal means always complaining or rejecting the end result when things don't go your way. At most, I'd go, "oh, darn," not go, "DIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIE!"

Oh, grow up.

[ladylynx.livejournal.com]

When Obama won, I cried until I was too drunk to cry. I still didn't yell for everyone to die.

[moviequeen985.livejournal.com]

Ditto, except for the drinking part.

[izuko.livejournal.com]

I disagree with NC's choice...

But liberal tears make my rum just a little sweeter.

[aricadavidson.livejournal.com]

I happen to live in North Carolina. I can't even look at my twitter or facebook right now...

Because I'm being told that because I live here, I'm a racist, bigoted homophobe or some variation thereof. Because "EVERYONE" who lives in NC is one now.

And strangely, I was a bit torn on which way to vote, but because of my 9 month old nephew's funeral, forgot to do so.

[muses-circle.livejournal.com]

Also living in NC and enjoying the hell out of my "hide this story" option on Facebook. Apparently I can't handle my racist homophobic tendencies.... /sarcasm

I don't like how the citizenry voted, but in a republic the people do have a say. NC spoke. It happens. Besides, it's only a matter of time before it's repealed. (And hopefully it will be repealed, since the amendment goes way deeper into unmarried couples' business where court rulings are concerned (http://www.law.unc.edu/documents/faculty/marriageamendment/finalmarriageamendmentreport.pdf). Government gotten bigger? Oh I think so!)

re: Obama's sudden "Come to Jesus" moment...that's a ploy. This man has no soul and will say/do/act in any manner in order to obtain more votes. People were up in arms about NC's voting yesterday? He'll come out in support of same-sex marriage. Anyone who buys his line of BS is an idiot.

[mosinging1986.livejournal.com]

I'm glad to hear some feedback here. I am stuck at home and no longer have FB, so I don't have access to many people. I wasn't sure what the reaction would be. (To Obama suddenly claiming he supports same sex marriage, not to the NC amendment passing. I knew what the reaction would be to that. Isn't it funny how an ENTIRE STATE can be vilified in a minute? Tolerance!)

Anyway, I admit I am a bit surprised. I thought perhaps the SSM supporters would see right through Obama's desperate attempt at grabbing their votes!

I mean, how obvious could he be? This amendment passes, and IMMEDIATELY he claims he supports SSM, when to this point, I hadn't heard him really give a straight answer about it? Didn't he outright claim one time he supported traditional marriage?

If people are truly this stupid to believe this man's lies then... I honestly don't know what to say anymore. He very well could be reelected. We are then screwed.

[kelleigh.livejournal.com]

I also disagree with NC's choice, and I left my angry message on FB but limited the scope of it to those who voted for Amendment 1 (since I have many friends in the northern counterpart to my own Red state who voted against it). I also strongly disagree with the way the amendment was written, promoted, endorsed, and mis-represented. I mean, it's telling when you look at how the amendment passed much more strongly in the rural areas, telling me that most didn't bother to educate themselves on such a crappy proposal. I don't believe "shady" practices and religious endorsements are the way democracy ought to go, no matter which party is doing the manipulating.

HOWEVER, Obama's message today was total malarkey, and it sickens me to see so many people praising words. Obama hasn't "stood up for his beliefs..." He issued a statement that was tailored by someone else (most likely an entire team) in response to NC's legally-obtained decision. He has done NOTHING, promised NOTHING. It was a ploy, plain and simple, but the liberal minds I share social media with are acting like it's already been amended to the Constitution. Of course, I believe in marriage equality and would whole-heartedly oppose any measure to ban it (even with Romney), but actions speak louder than a phony speech that's nothing more than a play for numbers.

[ford-prefect42.livejournal.com]

I think that the assumption that rural people are less well informed is fallacious.

[kelleigh.livejournal.com]

I certainly don't believe that holds true to everyone in rural areas, but having lived in rural North Carolina, I believe I'm capable of drawing my own conclusions. Oh the whole, I believe that the majority of voters were less-informed (thru media manipulation and religious endorsements) than they should have been, perhaps through no fault of their own.

[ford-prefect42.livejournal.com]

Well, lemme put it this way. I think that the Obama core constituency is equally poorly informed compared to the Santorum constituency. Simply by *different* religious and media. If anything, the Urban population is *more* poorly informed. You don't generally see rural populations at OWS rallies.

[mosinging1986.livejournal.com]

I mean, it's telling when you look at how the amendment passed much more strongly in the rural areas, telling me that most didn't bother to educate themselves on such a crappy proposal.

Because we all know rural people are uneducated hicks, right? Sheesh.

[kelleigh.livejournal.com]

I didn't say that they were less educated, but that they could be less informed (had not educated themselves) on the amendments wording. It's a fact that the amendment passed by a much larger margin in rural areas, and knowing what I do about North Carolina, I can say that there are many people who wouldn't look or read beyond the media presentation of the bill, or the way it was endorsed by Billy Graham. I know many people, on both sides, who weren't aware of the amendments implications beyond the media-highlighted topic of same-sex marriage.

[mosinging1986.livejournal.com]

Saying it this way from the start would have come across as less insulting than it did.

[kelleigh.livejournal.com]

I apologize that it came off that way, but this was my original meaning and it could have been explained in more detail. Thanks for the understanding.

[mosinging1986.livejournal.com]

Your explanation makes perfect sense.

Dean approves!

[kelincihutan.livejournal.com]

I kind of take issue with the comment that religious endorsements are bad or manipulative.

Yes, yes, I know, "separation of church and state" blah, blah, blah. But here's the problem with using that in this way. It's not in the Constitution. It comes from a letter Jefferson wrote, I forget to whom, but simply put, you have to get it from an extra-Constitutional source. What is in the Constitution is this: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." From this we can infer the separation bit, with the primary purpose of such separation being the prevention of government interference with religion, not the other way around. I don't think it's an extraordinary step, however, to make the argument that this also prohibits any religion from taking control of the government, or that such an argument would stray from Constitutionality.

What you absolutely can not argue from this text, or any other that is actually the law of the land, is that such separation prevents religious persons from participating in the government process, even when their motives for doing so are religious ones. Religious persons with opinions are no less permitted to express those views via voting and lobbying and etc than anyone else. Nor is the fact that their motivations are religious ones a sufficient reason, on its own, to discount what they have to say.

Religious views are just as open to criticism and argument as any other. They are just as free to be voted against. They are no more protected than any other political view, but they certainly aren't any less so, either. And while it is perfectly legitimate to say, "That's a religious argument and therefore I don't agree with it." it is absolutely not valid to say "That's a religious argument and therefore you can't make it." The first is democracy. The second is censorship.

[kelleigh.livejournal.com]

I wasn't arguing separation of church and state, and I don't need a class on the Constitution. I do believe in both the freedom of religion as well as freedom from religion. However, you and I are going to disagree about this point because I don't believe religion should be a part of the discussion on this issue. I certainly can't prevent it, nor is it against the law, but same-sex marriage isn't a religious issue to me. Certainly to some, it is, but same-sex couples aren't looking for recognition within the church (and if they were, the church has every right to uphold their ban on it). Recognition of a civil union (which goes beyond same-sex marriage to every ceremony performed outside religious boundaries) is a matter for the state.

I can't argue with NC's decision because it's been made and voted on, but I think basing the decision partly off of a religious belief or endorsement was wrong. I don't agree with it, but they can and did make their argument. I can still believe that it was wrong.

[kelincihutan.livejournal.com]

I brought up the Constitutionality of religious participation in government only because I believe it is important to ground these sorts of discussions in...well, the Constitution. Which does not invalidate religious motivation for civil action. As you point out, disagreement with religious arguments is perfectly reasonable. But I take serious issue with the claim such arguments should be prevented from being put forth in the first place.

[gratuitous-love.livejournal.com]

While I can understand the outrage against NC, screaming about death threats is not the way to go about it. What is wrong with people?

As for the Obama suddenly supporting gay marriage thing...can't really say I'm surprised. I knew he'd do it eventually. But the fact that people are praising it when it's an election year and on the heels of this whole thing? Come on, guys...

My Twitter feed had a few tweets about it, but that's about it. My Tumblr dash hasn't said a peep about it, which is absolutely baffling considering the majority of the people there.

[fenerkulesi.livejournal.com]

Neither has mine. Some people have reblogged an Avengers tweet Obama made (today? yesterday?) which admittedly I thought was amusing, but as far as NC and/or Obama's flip? Nothing.

It's such a relief, for now.

[kataoi.livejournal.com]

I think what really helps is a.) following blogs specifically dedicated towards a show/game/food rather than people, and b.) following friends who you know their political leanings/their tendency to post political stuff. I follow so few individuals on Tumblr outside of my friends because every time I check out somebody elses, it usually has something gaggingly liberal or...actually that's pretty much it.

[kc-anathema.livejournal.com]

There's definitely some decrying of Obama's clearly manipulative timing (http://gawker.com/5909002/barack-obamas-bullshit-gay-marriage-announcement) going on in liberal circles, and while I agree with a few of the commenters there that it's still a good thing that a sitting president has expressed this, it's pretty clear that Obama is all about self-aggrandizement and self-interest.

I used to think that "legislating from the bench" was endemic mainly on the leftist side, but I have noticed that the right often does not decry this kind of decision making when it falls on our side. This makes sense, but I do think that the judicial branch exists for a reason, largely for decisions like this arguable tyranny of the majority.

Ultimately I keep to my libertarian pipe dream that some day we'll achieve a more libertarian ideal of getting religion out of the state marriage process, making all state contracts purely secular, and leaving marriage as a religious institution purely a purview of the various religious institutions. Although I think that gay marriage will be legal in my lifetime, I'd like to make it much sooner than later.

[jessm78.livejournal.com]

So glad to find refuge here! Like you, quite a few people on my flist are squeeing over Obama saying he supports gay marriage. I felt tempted to mention how it's an election year and how interesting it was that he appeared to oppose it in 2008 (didn't he say something to that effect back then? Of course he was lying, that goes without saying). But I'd do it on filter since I'd get flamed and defriended en masse.

I've also got these same people gnashing their teeth over the NC vote. At the heart of it I'm basically against gay marriage, but it's not one of the biggest issues to me. You're right, they voted.

I'm sick of my flist whining about how they voted against equal rights. To me it's not so much about equal rights as it is giving special rights to one group of people. I've known gay people and most of them seem respectful and decent (although there have been some who have molested young kids in my own neighborhood). I just don't see why they need special treatment and why society needs to bend to them. As long as you're a good person I'll respect you.

Meh, sorry about the rant. Just one of these times where I want to sound off to my flist but can't 'cause I'm not in the mood for a huge fight.

[blondebaroness.livejournal.com]

Next up, "Obama comes out and says, "I hate kittens." (Hey, he's got to curry the dog vote. Oops! Was that a pun?)

[farchivist.livejournal.com]

I see no reason for anyone to get uptight about NC's voting decision as how valid it will remain will depend entirely on the Perry/DOMA challenges (especially Golinski and Windsor) that will eventually hit the Supreme Court. The Supremes will issue a verdict and the matter will rest for the next 50 years or so. The NC constitutional amendment will either be validated by the verdict or it will be nullified. And that will be that.

I will say that if Perry is the deciding case, the anti-gay marriage crowd had best get better arguments than they used in that case. What they presented in court was weak, weak, weak.