Health Care Debate, help with the Left.......

[trevelyanl85a2.livejournal.com]

I need some help.

I've been on a few forums in a online nation-simulating game I'm in, debating about health care in the US.

I'm getting owned in the sense that I'm fighting a major battle and I could use some help trying to explain the arguments on why nationalised health care in America is bad.

Some of these people are from other countries, most notably Europe and the Commonwealth countries, where such things are publicly funded and everyone seems to enjoy it.

Here are some of the arguments I tried using, after seeing this response:

"I personally actually feel that I'm getting pushed farther and farther to the left, especially after our friends of the Republican party are the "Party of No" with their Death Panels crap.

"Oh noooo! Soon the government will have a stranglehold on healthcare!".....yea well sometimes the government does things better than corporations. At least if this legislation passes, they won't be able to refuse a car crash victim because they had a hangnail in the past.....GO PUBLIC OPTION GO!"

My response: "As far as I'm concerned the only reason Republicans have been increasingly hostile to this are the following:

1. Obama never made any attempt to address our concerns. When we raised them, he completely shut us out and rejected our concerns.

2. We don't want the government telling us where to see a doctor. With private healthcare, we have the ability to shop around for both insurance and better doctors without someone telling us otherwise.

3. Raising taxes to fund this = automatic NAY. We're already taxed enough as it is.

4. With how bad our bureaucracy is, having the government run the healthcare industry will make things progressively worse in terms of quality of care.

5. No one said how this was going to be paid for without certain programmes being cut, or taxes being raised. And the fact that some defence programmes will be cut, when the military needs such funding, is also cause for an automatic nay angry.gif

6. America is not and shall not be a socialist nation. This whole rubbish with the government controlling what, 3 industries is pathetic and should never have happened at all."

Yea I was a bit annoyed :-/.

Responses I got back:

" 1) The whole reason liberals got so pissed off is that Obama seemed ready to sacrifice the public option on the altar of "bi-partisanship." The Baucus bill was practically an enshrinement of the status quo, with insurance companies, NOT THE CONSUMERS, in charge.

2)The government can't tell you what doctor to see if you're not on the public option. If you want private insurance, keep it. But don't complain when THEY bar you from your choice of doctors, or drop you when you get really sick (which the public option prevents and law will prevent by 2013).

3) Well, we have to raise taxes because someone (rhymes with Push) cut the taxes for the wealthiest Americans and messed up our budget.

4) Yes, just like the horrific Post Office, the terrors of Medicare and Medicaid, and the bureaucratic nightmare that is the United States Armed Forces.

5) We don't need a bunch of ridiculous defense programs with no real use in the type of wars we're fighting, not to mention those criminal organizations we hire to reinforce our regular military (Halliburton, KBR, Blackwater).

6) They said the same thing about the New Deal and the Great Society programs. Obviously, Social Security and Medicare did not lead to collectivism and socialized medicene, so the credibility of conservatives is somewhat blown in this category."

This one from a Malaysian Christian: "I don't really understand the whole issue of the healthcare thing in the US, maybe it's because my country practices mixed economy system where there are government-run hospitals and private hospitals...

:| "

Another from a Brit I think:
"
I've lived my whole life in a nation without private hospitals so to me it's completely illogical to be against public healthcare :P

Cry some more mister not-living-with-almost-50%-income-tax " <_<

One from an Australian:
" lol, public healthcare is really the only way to ensure the healthcare system works as it should and is run with the society in mind, not how deep your pockets are.

Do you know how much an MRI SCAN costs in american atm? You go to the hospital yourself, I'm sure you know the costs associated. Do you know how many people get screwed over because of their insurance company bailing? Do you know how many people suddenly lose their insurance, and then unluckily for them suddenly need surgery of some sort? What does the hospital say, lol too bad, you aren't covered. We'll get bloody sued if anything goes wrong, screw it.

Anyway, Australia uses both public and private healthcare, so there is a balance.

I rather like Canada btw.

Can someone summarise what that bill states? O:

Sidenote, one reason I don't want to work in America is a lot of hospital policy revolves around money, expenses and law suits.

Edit: also it sounds to me (from the posts) that private hospitals won't be eliminated anyway. Some people can't afford private hospitals you know, they'll be able to afford a public system.

......

Australia makes it pretty much compulsary to join government programs to help you find work, heck you have to keep a log of all your attempts at finding work, and if it's unsatisfactory, well stuff happens.
"

At this point I was considered "owned" by those debating on the liberal side, because she claims to work in the industry while I work in the defence/engineering industry -_-.

Help? For the record, I'm considering myself as conservative moderate, but I still get labelled as some right-wing bible thumping nob even though I am clearly a Hindu!

*faints, heals self with Force Heal for 34 HP*

20 Years of The Fall Of The Wall

[lazypadawan.livejournal.com]

The Berlin Wall, the symbol of the Cold War and Soviet domination of Central/Eastern Europe, starting coming down this week 20 years ago. Having been born into a world where there was East Germany and West Germany, East Berlin and West Berlin, it was astonishing to see. I was in college at the time and it vindicated everything President Reagan, Lady Thatcher, Pope John Paul II, etc. were trying to do that entire decade. And it blew the Yay, Global Socialism dreams of my professors out of the water, heh heh. Germany would be reunified a year later, Czechoslovakia would amically split into two countries, and the Soviet Union itself would collapse in less than two years.

Those on the left tend to ignore Reagan's leadership and overpraise Mikhail Gorbachev's "contribution." Gorby's contribution was trying too late to save a crashing plane. He knew the bottom was about to fall out of Soviet Communism and that whole glasnost/perestroika thing or trying to negotiate with the West were his last ditch attempts to save it. Reagan outmaneuvered him over SDI and outspent the Soviets on defense. That was the beginning of the end.

Unfortunately, while the Russkies are lovin' that capitalism, we failed to tear down the Berlin Wall in our own country. The threat to freedom we face today doesn't come from Vladimir Putin, it comes from our own Congress and our own President. I never thought I'd live to see the day where Pravda sounds less like government propaganda than ABC News. Melanie Phillips wrote this piece for the Daily Mail that nails it as far as I'm concerned:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1226211/MELANIE-PHILLIPS-We-fools-think-fall-Berlin-Wall-killed-far-Left-Theyre--attacking-within.html

The Revolution

[autumnjoy.livejournal.com]

I'm about two-thirds through Ron Paul's book The Revolution: A Manifesto and wondered if anyone else had read it. And if so, what are your thoughts / opinions?

As I'm reading it, I find myself wishing more Americans had read this book. I don't agree with a hundred percent of it, but most of it is refreshing, straight-forward common sense. Especially with regard to Constitution. It's making consider some things that I hadn't thought of before, things that I hadn't thought to question because they are simply a given part of the world I grew up in. And it is making me understand a little better why a few of my friends decided on write-in votes for him last year.